Curse

Darkest Fullalla · Sep 21, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

I have:
Enraging Charge,Flail,Sun and Moon Slash,Whirlwind Attack, HundredBlades, Mark of Pain, Asuran scan

So yea, what would you recommend I use the last slot for?

Killamus · Sep 21, 2009, 03:33 AM // 03:33

FGJ.
That, or barbs for the lulz (I forget if HB triggers on the target foe too, if it does, that's 2x 10ish damage per hit).

But yea, I'd go with FGJ to instantly charge S&MS, however much that sounds like some sort of take off of BDS&M.

Bobby2 · Sep 21, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Ehhhhh what you wanna use this for? MoP on a War!?

Ccat · Sep 21, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

MoP/Splinter is better used on Heroes. Just saying.

tuperwho · Sep 21, 2009, 11:50 AM // 11:50

I always like to have distracting blow for a no-attribute-required interrupt

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 21, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

MoP belongs on a midliner. There is no way you'd be able to use AS on more than 1 or 2 foes before you run out of energy otherwise, in addition to the fact they can afford to throw more points into curses/death/whatever it's in.

Ccat · Sep 21, 2009, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Warrior's Endurance could work, but meh, then you'd lose the whole point in addition to the fact Warriors aren't supposed to lose their flow. They have very few skills that actually have cast times and those are usually the ones with huge benefits/ doing what Warriors usually don't do. Breaking the flow of attacks feels off to me and others..

Also, what Marty said - there's usually no point in having sub'd lots of attribute points into one skill unless there's a reason for that, ie using MoP on 12 to kill all Raptors, that's effective. You have 56 skills in your heroes/team to back you up in theory, on top of the fact a Necro using MoP has the energy to back it up, as well as being able to support with Meekness, Enfeebling etc all with the same attribute.

Darkest Fullalla · Sep 22, 2009, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Ahh, so it is best to have MoP on a henchie. I've been using it on my war bar with pretty good results, i use a zealous sword for this build so the energy is not much of a problem. If I do take out MoP what skills would you recommend I put into this build?

Kenzo Skunk · Sep 22, 2009, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Energy lacking build. If you want more aoe, take splinter weapon. May be doable, but one chain is all you can hope for. Unless taking zealous weapon that is. Especially since your target will drop quick because of Asuran scan, and mop gets wasted too soon. If you still want to stick with this, slap fgj on and that`s that.

Darkest Fullalla · Sep 22, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Ok so im running HB, FGJ, WWA, SMslash, Fail, EC so far. Im not so sure about Asuran Scan anymore, been thinking about using skills like By ursal's hammer, gash, sever atery, EBSOH, or Power attack to fill the last 2 slots. You think any of these skills is worth using on my bar?

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 23, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Possibly FGJ for more SaMS. Splinter belongs on a midliner. Spirits are extremely powerful now so theres no problem in taking a Rit (though you could just chuck it on a Necromancer/any other midliner you've got).

_Nihilist_ · Sep 24, 2009, 02:02 AM // 02:02

2 open skillslots...

Go with an Elementalist secondary and bring Grasping Earth, maybe? If anything survives the initial MoP+100lolzbomb, they won't be getting away anytime soon! You don't even have to sacrifice any attribute points... @ 3 Earth Magic, GE lasts 10sec with a 12sec cd, and only costs 5e to boot!

w00t w00t! pwnurface paintrain is on da move! w00t w00t! chuggachuggachuggachugga w00t w00t!

The second slot? Whatever you want to use? Res, or if a res is not needed, "SY!" mebbe?

Darkest Fullalla · Sep 24, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Thanks thats a great idea, also thankyou all for the help.

stocker25 · Sep 27, 2009, 06:35 AM // 06:35

I disagree with the majority of the responses you have gotten here. I have found that for several reasons and in several situations using MoP on a warrior is extremely useful.

1. I only have the 1st 2 campaigns so no heroes.

2. I usually Pug so I cant rely on a necro being available and I can't assume that the necro will bring MoP

3. To a necro MoP is just another hex and is often put on any random enemy. I usually make the calls so I can more effectively use MoP to cause a great deal of damage

4. MoP is one of the most powerful spells in the game. How is it a bad thing to have an extra copy?

5. 10 energy every 20 seconds is nothing, especially with a zealous weapon mod. Also, 1 second of casting every 20 seconds is basically the same as just one attack.

6. Playing classes within the boring boundaries that people set up just isn't fun. I'd rather have a slightly less effective build that I came up with myself then play one of the 5 or so generic warrior builds that everyone else plays.

This is the build that I usually play. I have found it to be quite effective and a lot of fun.

Attributes (approx)

10 curse
14 sword
9 strength (I think)

Skills

d slash
Pure strike
utility / attack skill / can't remember atm
IAS
For great justice
Save yourselves
enfeebling blood
MoP

People have argued that putting points into curses is a bad investment. All it costs me is 4 points in strength and I don't really see how a little bit of armor penetration is better than the effects of the curses I bring. These curses allow me to do huge AoE as well as shutdown melee characters that can often overwhelm a backline. In many cases having a warrior with enfeebling blood is beneficial because since I often make first contact with a group of enemies I can cast the skill while they are still clustered, thereby getting the greatest effect.

It's 2:30 am here and I'm too tired to write much more but if you have any comments on my post I'll reply later. Overall, the main thing I want to get across is that warrior builds using secondary skills such as necro curses can be effective and fun. If you are to blind to realize this you can go ahead and play your WE and Godmode warriors; I'll just have more fun trying something new.

Terek Zelta · Sep 27, 2009, 11:22 AM // 11:22

If you use it well, do it! That said, there are a number of reasons why MoP is better on a necromancer than a warrior, and most are pretty obvious, not the least of which is that it's 10 energy with a 1 second cast time. 10 energy is a lot on a warrior, especially if you're using other energy-based skills, and having to stop to recast it on different enemies is a pain and interrupts our flow. Not to mention, necromancers just do it a lot better, higher attributes, being casters, etc., which means warriors should stick to doing what they do best: being warriors and smashing stuff.

I was with you until I saw your build. I thought, well yeah, for your purposes, I can see why you'd do it, even if I don't agree. I'm not knockin' your build, but MoP will synergize better with Hundred Blades, and Pure Strike doesn't synergize with anything. If all you're doing is Dragon Slashing, there are other skills you can put there that would be more help in accomplishing that goal. A cancel stance for one, like Enraging Charge, helps you build adrenaline and lets you chase down kiting enemies. Just activate it some time before you enter battle so you can work around the recharge time.

If you guys insist on using MoP on a warrior, personally I'd recommend using Hundred Blades, Sun and Moon and Whirlwind.

stocker25 · Sep 27, 2009, 05:15 PM // 17:15

To an extent I agree with you that whirlwind attack, hundred blades etc are the best used skills if a warrior is using MoP but I have several counter arguments.

1. As I said I ONLY have the first 2 campaigns therefore I don't have enraging charge or whirlwind attack.

2. You talk about how bringing a cancel stance is key. Well, that's often what my utility slot is used for.

3. you claim pure strike has no place. In cases where it is useless to cast MoP or when I have a bit of energy at the end of a fight I use this skill. I find it gives my build utility as I don't have to rely on D slash and my ability to gain adrenalin. At 14 swordsmanship it does more damage than power attack does at 9 strength.

4. As long as you are not stupid you won't have energy problems. Adding a zealous mod can theoretically help you gain 1 energy per second on top of regen. This provides more than enough energy to keep the build going.

5. Bringing all skills based around 1 skill greatly limits the number of situations you will be useful in. Sure you will theoretically do huge AoE damage but sometimes enemies scatter. In that case you will be doing like 10 damage per hit on a single enemy because in HM sun and moon slash and 100 blades do virtually no damage. I know this because one of my original attempts at using MoP highlighted 100 blades and sun and moon slash, it didn't work. In cases like this I'd rather have a mix of good single target damage dealers such as pure strike and dragon slash.

6. My build IS good in a variety of situations. For example in HM there is a huge amount of Melee hate. While various generic warrior builds will be forced to continue to slash away ineffectively while being constantly blinded cursed etc. My build at least has the ability to cast some spells and be of some use to my team. Also when I run into tough single targets, such as bosses, I'm still useful. A whirlwind attack, 100 blades warrior will be doing virtually no damage where as my warrior will be doing huge single target damage through d slash, giving my teamates 100 extra armor, and reducing the physical damage they take by 66%. If you can show me another build that does this much I'll be impressed.

7. Have any of you played a build similar to this? You all seem to be experts claiming that it won't work but I'm sure very few of you have actually tried it.

In my last post I showed why MoP was a viable skill on a warrior and in this post I defended my personal use of it. I'm a smart guy, I don't just throw builds together without thinking about it and I'm sure I have a counter argument for any critique you have of my playing style.

Terek Zelta · Sep 27, 2009, 06:49 PM // 18:49

My post was half directed at you, half directed at anyone reading this thread. Sorry for the confusion.

I do use a build similar to yours. I run it for farming raptors, only my elite is Hundred Blades, and I use Whirlwind Attack.

With Hundred Blades, the +damage activates whether you're blocked or not, and Sun and Moon Slash is also unblockable. This is why I say Pure Strike is useless. Sun and Moon Slash and Hundred Blades has an even greater effect with better synergy, and you can use a stance with it. You don't need Whirlwind Attack technically, you can get by with something like Sever Artery and Gash. This also frees you to run any sword mod you want and doesn't force you to use zealous.

And that's pretty much all the build with MoP is good for, for me, is farming raptors, because I can use those skill slots in better ways for my party.

And this is what it comes down: Your build is trying to combine different, separate strategies, when you could be more effective by using one strategy. Not necessarily basing it around a single skill, but coming up with a single, versatile strategy. Hundred Blades + Sun and Moon, for example, is good at single target damage and excellent at AoE.

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just saying there are better options, even with the first two campaigns.

Edit: Fixed a confusing second paragraph.

stocker25 · Sep 27, 2009, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Don't worry about it, I'm by no means offended. I think you made a good point about sun and moon slash and can admit that it would probably be a better fit than pure strike. Although I still question its ability to do very much damage against HM enemies.

Still I would argue that doing many things fairly well is better than doing one thing amazingly. Still this probably is mostly because of the playing style I have. I always PUG so I can't trust people to bring crucial skills, therefore I bring them myself. Also I like doing lots of things because I find it boring just doing one. Overall I guess it comes down to how you play and what you like to do, for my playing style I find this build to be both fun and effective.

Sorry for derailing the topic, I guess if there is one thing I would say it is that if you want to run MoP on your warrior then do it. Run what you want, not just what other people tell you to.

Terek Zelta · Sep 28, 2009, 11:24 AM // 11:24

That's pretty much it. If you like it, run it.

Just one thing: We don't generally use Sun and Moon Slash for damage output. It has good damage output, even though it has no +damage, but the armor penetration from strength still applies since it's a skill, so it'll feel like it has a small amount of +damage. This is also great with a vampiric mod.

But the beauty of Sun and Moon Slash comes from the "attack target foe twice" thing - it effectively triggers both Mark of Pain and Hundred Blades twice per use (triggering MoP 4 times per use, I believe), which adds up to a whole lot of damage.

It's also worth noting that under FGJ, Sun and Moon Slash charges itself if you're partying with a necromancer that uses Dark Fury, whether it's human or AI.